From: Awini Ambuj Shanker
Sent: 20 June 2002
To: british-cars-pre-war; mg-t; mg-tabc; rolls-bentley
Subject: Lagonda V12 Scrol oil seal
there is a massive oil leak from the rear of the engine(flywheel side)in my lagonda V12, i had asked specialist and based on the information i gave at the time, they suspected the scroll oil seal was at fault,but i now notice that the oil hardly leaks when the engine is on,but when the engine is switched off it starts leaking. the car has been standing for about two months now and when i opened the garage yesterday there was a huge pool of oil all over the place and the oil level indicator showed empty. could this leak be in the sump cover plate instead?as it does cover part of the flywheel so accurate inspection is difficult from below the car. as the scroll is at crankshaft level and i think the oil is stored below that level when the engine is off,so i dont think all the oil can drain out from the scroll,or can it?
Im sure other prewar cars have scrols too, please help regards
Awini Ambuj Shanker
Lagonda V12 Rapide, 14096
From: Dave & Diana Dwyer
Sent: 20 June 2002
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Lagonda V12 Scrol oil seal
I know nothing about the Lagonda, but the scroll is way above the normal oil level in the sump of any car. It has to be in order to give the crank space to rotate without it hitting the oil surface.
Scrolls were used for a long time after World War 2, in many British cars, and the sump #can't # be emptied that way.
You must have another leak: good luck in finding it, at least a big leak is easier to find than a small one!
MGJ2, TA, TC
From: David Cochrane
Sent: 20 June 2002
To: Awini Ambuj Shanker
Subject: Re: Lagonda V12 Scrol oil seal
> there is a massive oil leak from the rear of the engine (flywheel side) on
> my Lagonda V12, I had asked specialist and based on the information i gave
> at the time, they suspected the scroll oil seal was at fault,but i now
> notice that the oil hardly leaks when the engine is on,but when the engine
> is switched off it starts leaking. the car has been standing for about two
> months now and when i opened the garage yesterday there was a huge pool of
> oil all over the place and the oil level indicator showed empty. could
> this leak be in the sump cover plate instead?as it does cover part of the
> flywheel so accurate inspection is difficult from below the car. as the
> scroll is at crankshaft level and i think the oil is stored below that
> level when the engine is off,so i dont think all the oil can drain out
> from the scroll,or can it?
I don't know the V12 engine very well, but I am sure that the correct oil level is well below the crankshaft - nor should the bottom of the con-rods touch the oil when the engine is running. I think the oil level on your car is shown by an indicator on the side of the crankcase, operated by a (cork?) float in the sump, i.e. there is no dipstick. It is possible that this is not working properly, and that you have mistakenly filled the crankcase much too full. What I suggest is that you completely drain the sump into a large clean container (including any oil that may be stuck in camshaft tunnels or whatever) and re-fill it with a carefully measured correct amount of this oil; this amount should be given in the hand-book (available from the Lagonda Club if you don't have one).
If you have lots of oil left over, a faulty oil-level gauge would seem to be your problem. If, however, your sump is already empty (or nearly empty), you could try putting some paraffin/kerosene in the engine (an amount greater than the quantity of oil that remained in the sump) and try to see where it is leaking out (paraffin will leak out much quicker than oil will). Don't of course run it like this!!
Hope this helps,
From: Maggie Shapland
Sent: 20 June 2002
Subject: lagonda oil
Sorry, my last message didnt get sent.
The lanchester has a lever on top of the engine side plate. There is no sump plug or oil level dipstick. If the lever is moved to the left, all the oil is dumped on the floor. If moved to the right there is a hole on the side of the sump at oil level- if there is enough oil in there then oil will come out- if not enough then it wont- so one adds oil until it does and then moves the lever back to its central place. If the lever is not moved back far enough then oil will dump from the oil level as the car is moving, if moved too far then all oil will dump on the floor. The lever is attached to an internal rod which operates different taps. I would imagine the lagonda is like this especially if it has no apparent dipstick or sump plug and I would imagine the lever is slightly in the wrong place- it is rather awkward and one has to lift it to turn it (I have to use a screwdriver to enable me to lift and move at the same time and curse every time I have to check the oil level). It then drops down into a location having been moved far enough. The rod could be bent or not moving properly. If you take the sump off you will see the lever- but at least check the lever position first.
The Talbot has an integral sump covering both gearbox and engine. If there is too much oil in either or oil gets past the throw ring because it is not a brilliant fit, then oil is deposited into the part of the sump below the flywheel which has a convenient hole in to drain the excess oil to avoid flooding the clutch with oil. Obviously I only get oil flying around when moving but does mean that at a garage forecourt I leave a telltale puddle of oil!
1925 Lanchester 21, 1925 Talbot 10/23, 1929 Peugeot 190S, 1986 Moss Monaco