Hints and Tips - A7 Gordon England Hand Brakes

From: David Cochrane
To: Stuart Roach
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999
Subject: GE Cup Hand-brake

Stuart,

I wonder if you could help me with some advice on fitting the hand-brake lever to my GE Cup Special. The chassis I am using is a bodged up 1930 coupled-brake type which has had the fore-and-aft chassis member removed to make it look like an earlier (uncoupled brake) version. I am fitting uncoupled brakes as per Vintage A7. The hand-brake won't fit properly to the front cross-member as there isn't enough cut away from the top lip to allow it to go fully vertical. It would be quite easy of course to grind some of the lip away, but I thought that I could take the opportunity to try to mount the hand-brake lever further back anyway, as the seats in the Cup are further back than standard, and I am going to use a remote gear-change. I will have to make up some sort of sturdy bracket to mount it on, and work out some method of mounting the front of the ratchets which normally screw into the back of the gearbox.

As you are the proud owner of a Cup model, I wondered if you could sit in it and decide where you would like the hand-brake lever to be, if you could choose. If it was to be mounted further back, check that it wouldn't foul the bottom of the dashboard. Any other advice or comments would be appreciated.

Yours in anticipation,

David Cochrane,
Rugby


Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999
From: Pete Bishop
To: David Cochrane
cc: Stuart Roach
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

David, This is exactly what I was going through on my Chummy. (You may remember my mail to the list on the subject last year) I have mounted my hand brake further back but have yet to mount up the ratchet. A problem I hit however is that with the hand brake further back, and the front axle in the full rebound position, the brake cables foul on the top of the chassis cross member. You would probably need to look at mounting the lever higher up as well to get round this, but I then ran into problems with the cables fouling the bottom of the gearbox with the axle at the full bounce position. That was with a four speed box so it may be OK with the smaller shorter 3 speed.

Pete Bishop
Swindon


From: Stuart Roach
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999
To: David Cochrane
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

David,

The handbrake in my Cup is standard mounting on the front crossmember, as a Chummy. The only mod that I've done is a bracket on the crossmember to locate the ratchet on so I can swap engines and gearboxes without having to dismantle the brakes each time.

I am currently running with a 4 speed box and the handbrake cables do rub on one side of the gearbox but this has never caused me a problem. I would tend to leave the lever in the same place as normal other wise you might hit your hand when changing gear. I tried to fit an ELTOS remote change to my cup but it brought the lever to far back and made it uncomfortable, not the thing you want for long MCC trials.

I have looked at my type of crossmember (1927) and one that is fitted to your car and there would be no trouble in cutting the flange away on your car to fit a Chummy type handbrake which to me would seem to be the easiest option. Then again I guess it is down to personal choice and comfort.

I hope I have helped a little,

Stuart


From: David Cochrane
To: British-Cars-Pre-War
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake
cc: Mano, Harry Colledge

Pete,
> This is exactly what I was going through on my Chummy. (You
> may remember my mail to the list on the subject last year)

Yes I do, but I had forgotten that you had the same problem with the top of the chassis cross-member. Yours must be a later chassis as well?

> I have mounted my hand brake further back

How?

> but have yet to mount up the ratchet.

I thought that an extension rod into the back of the gearbox might work.

> A problem I hit however is that with the hand brake further
> back, and the front axle in the full rebound position, the brake
> cables foul on the top of the chassis cross member.

I wonder how much this really matters - I don't think that the cables are moving back and forwards by more than about an inch or so, and are they fouling or merely rubbing? If the latter, just keep them greased. I don't think that they would be bent by much of an angle over the top of the chassis would they?

> You would
> probably need to look at mounting the lever higher up as well to get
> round this, but I then ran into problems with the cables fouling the
> bottom of the gearbox with the axle at the full bounce position.
> That was with a four speed box so it may be OK with the smaller
> shorter 3 speed.

I think that the handbrake mechanism would also foul the propshaft as well if you mounted it higher up.

Thanks for the input!
Regards,

David


Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
From: Pete Bishop
To: Stuart Roach
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

Stuart, are you running a 4 speed box with a vintage type engine? When I tried this combination in my car the back of the gearbox fouled the crossmember (primarily one of the bolts holding the layshaft retaining plate) Did you have this problem and if so how did you get round it? Obviously if it's a later style crankcase the gearbox sits about 3/4 inch further forward so this is not a problem

Pete


Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
From: Pete Bishop
To: David Cochrane
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

David Cochrane wrote:
>
> Pete,
>
> > This is exactly what I was going through on my Chummy. (You
> > may remember my mail to the list on the subject last year)
>
> Yes I do, but I had forgotten that you had the same problem with the
> top of the chassis cross-member. Yours must be a later chassis as
> well?

........Yes it is a 1930 coupled brake type.......

>
> > I have mounted my hand brake further back
>
> How?

.........I used some bobbins over longer bolts to bring the mechanism back about 1 1/2 inches......

>
> > but have yet to mount up the ratchet.
>
> I thought that an extension rod into the back of the gearbox might
> work.
>
> > A problem I hit however is that with the hand brake further
> > back, and the front axle in the full rebound position, the brake
> > cables foul on the top of the chassis cross member.
>
> I wonder how much this really matters - I don't think that the cables
> are moving back and forwards by more than about an inch or so, and
> are they fouling or merely rubbing? If the latter, just keep them
> greased. I don't think that they would be bent by much of an angle
> over the top of the chassis would they?
>

....... Well yes the do just rub slightly on the chassis, so grease would be ok. The foul on the left hand side of the gearbox is a bit more severe, but I wonder if I have got my gearbox mounted further back than others ( see other email).............

> > You would
> > probably need to look at mounting the lever higher up as well to get
> > round this, but I then ran into problems with the cables fouling the
> > bottom of the gearbox with the axle at the full bounce position.
> > That was with a four speed box so it may be OK with the smaller
> > shorter 3 speed.
>
> I think that the handbrake mechanism would also foul the propshaft as
> well if you mounted it higher up.

........ I have got a hardy splicer prop and could move the handbrake up about 3/4 inch before it fouls the prop shaft flange........

I am thinking about converting to a Bowden cable set up to get round all these problems!

Pete Bishop
Swindon


From: David Cochrane
To: Stuart Roach
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

Stuart,

Many thanks for your input - it's given me some more to think about!
> The only mod that I've done is a bracket
> on the crossmember to locate the ratchet on so I can swap engines
> and gearboxes without having to dismantle the brakes each time.

That sounds like a good idea. However, I hope I won't have to swap gearboxes very often!
> I would tend to leave the lever in the same place as normal otherwise
> you might hit your hand when changing gear. I tried to fit an ELTOS
> remote change to my Cup but it brought the lever to far back and
> made it uncomfortable, not the thing you want for long MCC trials.

I have seen a couple of Cups with these fitted, and I rather fancied trying one myself. If you have tried one and discarded it, do you still have it, is it surplus to requirements, and could I borrow/buy it to try, please? I have just looked at some photos, and the Eltos remote certainly does seem to bring it rather far back. I really need to try one and see for myself. I would only move the handbrake back if I fitted a remote change, otherwise will take your advice. I agree, carving a small amount out of the top flange of the chassis cross-member would be quite easy.

Best regards,
David


From: Stuart Roach
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
To: Pete Bishop
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

Pete,

I am running a Vintage type engine with a 4 speed box. The way I got over the fouling of the crossmember is to raise the engine about 1/2" and thus solve all my problems including the handbrake and propshaft clearance. My engine is sat on rubber blocks and is only 3 bolt mounted (leaving the offside front bolt out) to allow the chassis to flex even more for trials.


Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
From: Pete Bishop
To: Stuart Roach
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

Stuart, Did you lift the whole engine up or just the back? If I move my whole engine up the engine nose casting fouls on the hole through the radiator surround.

Pete


From: Stuart Roach
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
To: Pete Bishopp
Subject: Re: GE Cup Hand-brake

Pete,

I just cut the front of the casting off so it does not protrude through the rad shell.

Stuart


Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999
From: Pete Bishop
To: Guy Weatherall
Subject: [Fwd: GE Cup Hand-brake]

And there's me trying to make everything line up nicely!!

Pete


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